Tue 15 May 2007

CBS producer Caroline Cooper contacted me last December about appearing on 60 Minutes on their Real Estate Confidential expose. I can still hear the sweet lies emanating from her lips as she tried to seduce me with whispers of face time on the show, if only I would agree to go on camera.
It was apparent that they had already figured out their angle, and they only needed a victim as a foil to Kelman’s studied calm and sensible demeanor, a windmill for him to fight, a Goliath of the real estate industry to his upstart David.
But Deborah Arends, bless her heart, tried her best. After hours of interviews and 3 days of tagging along and following her about, they edited the hours and hours of video down to the 2 or 3 sentences that would prove their point.
So, what I really want to know is, who is he sleeping with? Kelman blogs about hitting the road looking for more venture capital, within days of this 60 Minute tribute…… the timing of this homage couldn’t be more perfect. They’ve been hemorrhaging money since they started, and now they’re probably down to their last million or so, and I can almost hear Kelmans gentle puffery as he schmoozes the VC panels trying to squeeze out just another few million or so…. “We’re so close! We’ll go door-to-door! We can do 8 deals a week! No, 8 deals in a day! 8 deals in an hour!”
There are dozens, probably 100’s of discount real estate firms in the Seattle area, and probably 1000’s nationwide. But none have the combination of millions of dollars of venture capital, a charismatic CEO, and just the right amount of chutzpah and misinformation to make it all sound so plausible and right. After all, he wants to delight us!
Technology, the internet, streamlining and increasing sales volume should bring down sales commissions and Kelman said he had an agent who was able to close 8 transactions a week, “able” being the operative word.
Leslie Stahl stated that there was no way she could independently check those figures, but we can.
Our MLS allows us to easily check all closed sales by office. It also lists all agents associated with a particular office.
As of today 5/15/07, Redfin has 25 real estate agents listed with licenses in their office. Total sales in their service areas of King, Snohomish and Pierce Counties of all single family homes, condos, multi-family and vacant land is 150 closed sales.
That’s one hundred and fifty closed sales. By 25 agents. In the first 18 weeks of 2007. Please check my math, but isn’t that about 8 closed sales a week, by 25 agents? So did each agent make about 0.33 sales a week?
I’d love to be a fly on the wall at those meetings with the investors and venture capitalists. Pie charts, graphs, facts, figures. Lots of talk about disintermediation and volume of scale and that sort of thing.
When Redfin fails, they won’t blame themselves, the business model, lack of planning, poor management skills or bad judgement. They will blame the NAR, the “real estate industrial complex”, and the “real estate monopoly”.
VC’s out there reading this, please, use your head. At this rate, you will never see a dime returned on your money. It will just go down the same hole where the other $8M already went, subsidizing the 150 or so buyers who got their 2% refund from Redfin. That was YOUR money!
Redfin believes real estate agents are overpaid. They want to reduce commissions. If they succeed, THERE WILL BE NOTHING TO REFUND. Their whole M.O., their raison d’etre, their entire business model disintegrates.
According to the NAR, commissions have already fallen to 5.1%. Even that’s too high for some critics. If they continue their downhill spiral, the best agents will flee the business, leaving only the incompetent, the negligent and those unable to do anything else.
Be careful what you wish for….








May 16th, 2007 at 4:30 am
Since I am on a voluntary embargo from posting anything about Zillow and Redfin, I sure am glad you’re not!
Way to go, Marlow!
May 16th, 2007 at 5:55 am
I think you just ripped a far bigger hole in the Redfin mantra than the weaksauce NAR emails could ever do.
-Athol
May 16th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Since Redfin doesn’t yet work in Arizona, I have spent much of the last week trying to find out what it was all about. Thank you for this info. Doesn’t sound like they will make it to AZ.
May 16th, 2007 at 9:18 am
You have it right. Smart of you to not go on the Tele. Lar
May 16th, 2007 at 10:20 am
There are many real estate companies who use technology to cut costs and share those savings with their clients. You will find many here…
http://BetterHomeSelling.com & http://BetterHomeBuying.com
May 16th, 2007 at 11:05 am
[…] Stirring up the Redfin dust… May 16, 2007 In some ways it is sad that both Ardell and Marlow declined to take part in the 60 minutes episode, but at least they can both blog about it afterwards… I find Marlow’s analysis of Redfin to be particularly fascinating for two reasons… […]
May 16th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
[…] Reading Marlow Harris’ latest whining about Redfin brought to mind another industry that had trouble recognizing and adapting to a changing business landscape: the U.S. auto industry. […]
May 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Terrific!! Forward to NAR–yours is the response they should send to CBS!
May 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
[…] 360 Digest: Waiting for the dust to settle […]
May 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
This posting sounds a lot like what the people of Pompeii must have said before Vesuvius blew: “Just a little smoke, nothing to worry about.”
The 6% Myth has been exposed like never before and 60 Minutes just added fuel to the fire. The change is coming and while it won’t be today or tomorrow, rest assured, it is coming.
May 16th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Holy Cow!
When did you get so eloquent?
Very nicely put. Mr. kelman is in the Venture Capital business and redfin is his current vehicle. Next week it may well be the auto industry.
What bothers me is that this guy used my tax dollars through a Congressional sub committe to promote his current employers. It has been a brilliant ploy.
The sixty minutes piece was of course to boost ratings by vilifying Real Estate agents.
It’s very true many people have been hurt financially by bad Real Estate advice in the past ten years. Real Estate prices have escalated outlandishly.
What’s of particular interest to me is that the media contributed so heavily to an over blown Real Estate market. Now that prices are falling the media is looking elsewhere for a scape goat.
May 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Sorry, Marlow, I enjoyed reading the post and I agree with the sentiments, but it misses on a couple of critical points.
First, Redfin agents could achieve silly-high transaction volumes … they don’t do anything that requires getting out of an office chair. The “other” agent does all the work, or Redfin’s client.
For the deals Redfin is able to snag, the agents likely make over a $1,000 per hour spent. The essence of this business model is “spend no time, take no risk, collect a fee”.
Second, if consumers flocked to Redfin, they would make a profit. $1,000+ per hour ain’t bad work if you can get it.
This is not happening simply because most consumers are better at spotting a sucker-deal than Lesley Stahl.
FSBOs have been around forever. Most sellers don’t want to go there. And most consumers want the equivalent of this on the buy-side even less.
With Redfin, most consumers recognize that they are really in a “do it yourself” situation for a transaction involving the biggest chunk of their wealth, with almost a certainty of something going wrong … not a question of “if”, but “what”, and the consequences.
The successful business model for a residential real estate practice is definitely in transition, but RedFin is not where it’s going. Even knowing this, it’s still painful watching a sucker like Lesley Stahl get twisted out of her shorts
May 16th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I’ve been a homeowner for many years, I’ve been in the industry for many years. The only time I learned about commissions being negotiable, as in, I could ASK my agent to negotiate her fee with me, was when all the Redfin dialogue started.
If it is true that NAR wants to support all business models, instead of taking punches at redfin, or at 60 Minutes, NAR’s best plan is to launch a national campaign to educate America as to how real estate agent’s commissions are negotiable.
Anything less is rhetoric.
BTW, recall that it took amazon and expedia several years to make a profit.
May 17th, 2007 at 5:57 am
>With Redfin, most consumers recognize that they are really in a “do it yourself” situation for a transaction involving the biggest chunk of their wealth, with almost a certainty of something going wrong … not a question of “if”, but “what”, and the consequences.
I once tried to fix a pipe under the sink rather than pay the plumber. The book cost me $19.99, the fitting cost me $3.00 and yeah, the pipe still leaked. So what I ended up paying on the $75 dollar job eventually cost me $98 for his 13 minutes of work not to mention I completely ruined the underside of the cabinet. Will folks ever learn that just because someone makes it look easy, don’t mean it is…
And Marc… don’t kid yourself, there’s been no such thing as the 6% since like 25 years ago- we know nothings invented the discount.
Further you now have the attention of 1.3 million ever-changing new direct competitors focused on you. It won’t be a rule change that grills Redfin, it will be the fact that down on the individual level where Real Estate is practiced, 1.3 Million Realtors will very effectively prove you wrong one at a time- time after time.
May 17th, 2007 at 8:16 am
Jillayne,
The NAR can’t “launch a national campaign to educate America as to how real estate agent’s commissions are negotiable” because not all company’s commissions ARE negotiable.
Thought it is illegal for ALL companies to band together to establish a certain price or commission (”price-fixing”), there is nothing stopping an individual agency or agent to decide that their commission is “X” and is not negotiable.
Many real estate firms have terms of service and agents agree that they’ll charge a certain commission for certain services, and those are set.
There is no law that says I must negotiate my commission, and I rarely have incentive to do so. I have a choice, no one and no law can compell me to “negotiate” if I do not want to, but it could be that I am unable to do so, depending upon the TOS with my broker.
You could ask your real estate agent if you can negotiate a sales commission, but remember, costs can go UP just as easily as they can go DOWN.
For instance, a firm may generally charge a 6% listing fee but 7% under a certain price-point. And agents often charge 10% for vacant land. So don’t just assume that “negotiation” means the price will go DOWN.
May 17th, 2007 at 9:51 am
“If commissions continue their downhill spiral, the best agents will flee the business, leaving only the incompetent, the negligent and those unable to do anything else…. Be careful what you wish for…”
You guys need to wake up, take a walk out side and sniff the air.
I invited 12 of the “best” agents to bid on my home listing between Feb and April of 2007. The value of my home is about a million dollars. Not one of the 12 knew who Trulia was. They had no idea how to post my home on Craig’s list. Virtual tours…they just don’t do that here. A unique website with a address URL, not a chance.
The best of the best offered me a posting on the local MLS, posting on Realtor.com and ads in the paper. And I’m supposed to happily pay 5.1% percent commission on a million dollars for that?
10 years ago, I purchased this home for 245,000. Current commissions would earn an agent almost 4x what they would have made ten years ago. Am I getting 4x the service?
That high horse you’re on has got your collective heads in the clouds. At 3% commission, you would still earn more that you did 10 years ago. For a group of people whose skill set never increases, that’s a good enough wage. Be happy with that.
May 17th, 2007 at 10:19 am
Were these 12 “the best” because of performance and reputation? I’m assuming the answer would be “yes”.
So, they did not know about Trulia, yet they managed to be top in their field of real estate.
How do you think that happened?
Let me answer that question for you. It’s because Trulia is irrelevant to their success in marketing and selling homes. Craigslist might have some value, but I’m guessing minimal in a $1M price range.
Virtual tours and individual home pages for each listing? I do them. But then again, irrelevent in most markets.
Most houses are sold by traditional real estate agents, face-to-face, sold to people they know by the people who know them.
Social standing is more important than a webpage or virtual tour in this price range.
Obviously, you’re free to sell your home yourself, with a discount broker or a limited service firm.
May 17th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Nice Post, Marlow!
May 17th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
It’s unfortunate that 60 Minutes and CBS can put together such a misguided, one-sided, news story. I thought responsible journalists were supposed to present both sides of the story, and also verify the statements being made. Hats off to you Marlow!
May 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
[…] What Leslie could not do, Marlow can. Marlow Harris, a Seattle based real estate agent did a little investigative reporting in her local MLS, and found the statement a little eroneous. Imagine that, give someone their 15 minutes of fame and they will say anything. […]
May 17th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Marlow?!
Let me help you out with Home Seller or did you repost this guy’s comments?
The last time he was a seller in California with a million dollar house for sale. I’m sure it was on your blog that he was making these very same assertions, probably a year or two ago.
BTW,LOL, did you see the mess you made over on the other guy’s blog. Of course we wouldn’t want to mention any names because that would be bad.
And who might get who into trouble?
May 19th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
I know a Redfin agent who started May 1, 2007. He has 14 active listings, 5 STI, 3 pending, and 4 more to go active this weekend. I would guess that any of you that have MLS access could verify this.
All transaction coordinators with Redfin have their licenses. Also, Redfin has been hiring like crazy in the past few weeks, so the numbers used in the post are highly misleading.
May 20th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Our contracts state that our commissions are negotiable [so there is no secret] and I do get that question when I am on a listing appointment. There is no question that the RE business will change but when one does a real business plan: expenses, overhead, state of the art marketing, and liability, I guess one can survive with a McDonalds approach when the market is hot. Lets see what happens when the market tightens up and the consumer wants and needs the whole enchilada to sell their home. I am one to pay more to get more. Maybe some have had a bad experience in the sale of their home but I know that I have made others very wealthly and they didn’t complain about my higher fee.
May 20th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Marlow - Great blog. Well written. I’m going to add you to the growing list I have on my own.
Home Owner - You sound like the person who responded to mine and my computer sent the message to junk mail. With 16% annual ROI you’re complaining about Realtors being greedy? La zora no mida su cola (The fox doesn’t see its own tail).
May 20th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
[…] Marlow Harris from 360 Digest in Seattle eloquently wrote Waiting for the dust to settle… Add To: […]
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Here’s my 6%… I do not discount my fee because I am worth every penny of it. No buyer or seller will ever receive the service and expertise I provide from a phantom sitting in an office at a remote location. I work to make sure my clients receive the maximum benefit from their transactions - why would I do any different for myself?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:28 am
Good Morning Marlow,
Almost every employee at Redfin holds a license- from our Transaction Coordinators to our Receptionist. We do not have 25 Agents in Seattle, but we do have 25 employees.
Re-run your numbers in the MLS using our Agents names to get accurate calculations- you can find our Agents names on our website.
Cheers!
September 11th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Redfin vs. Deborah Arends UPDATE…
Remember all of the hullabaloo back in May regarding the 60 Minutes piece about the changes the internet is bringing to the real estate industry and how Redfin is an innovator and one of the driving forces and champions behind……